NYU Seeks Individuality and Direction
Isser Gallogly is director of full-time MBA program admissions at New York University's Stern School of Business (No. 14 in BusinessWeek's most recent ranking of full-time MBA programs). Prior to joining Stern in March, 2003, Gallogly worked in brand management at L'Oréal (OREP.PA), Unilever (UN), and Mattel (MAT). Gallogly's Masters in Business Administration is from Fuqua School of Business at Duke University.
Gallogly recently spoke with BusinessWeek.com reporter Derek Thompson about the kind of MBA students Stern seeks. Here's an edited transcript of their conversation:
Do you know how application numbers in 2008 will compare with last year?
It's hard to say how many we're going to get, but the application trend is up this year, and up significantly. We're really hopeful. It's up in the double digits and we still have a significant numbers of applications to go before the final deadline.
When is the best time to submit an application? The last deadline is Mar. 15.
We always tell people to apply as early as they feel they're most competitive. We have deadlines, but they're more for convenience, to give people a sense of when they can expect to hear back from us. Typically it's the Jan. 15 round that gets the most applications. I think that's because most people use winter break to finish their essays.
In addition to its 400 full-time MBAs, Stern enrolls about 1,735 part-time MBAs. How involved are part-time students at Stern?
In their second year, full-time students take electives with the part-timers. The great thing is that there are electives during the day and electives at night. So when some of our full-time students take their classes at night, they take them with the part-timers. Our part-time students are pretty involved in student governments and activities. They're officers in all sorts of clubs, and a year ago the head of student government was a part-time student.
What other perks do Stern MBAs enjoy?
In addition to New York City, we have more than 40 student clubs, including the marketing association, a cappella singing groups, a Japanese business society and even wine clubs. But in terms of perks, we also talk about the incredible options in electives, daytime and night-time. I would say the biggest perk coming here is probably the community. One of the unexpected things about NYU is how warm and down-to-earth our students are. They're also exceptionally diverse. But what they have in common is this working-together attitude. And that's a surprise about New York, I think.
Do Stern students interact with other grads at NYU?
Our students can take 25% of their classes in other graduate schools at NYU. Students interested in entertainment courses can go to Tisch [School of the Arts]. Those interested in social enterprise go to the Wagner School of Public Service. People with law and business interests can take classes at the NYU Law School. We don't have majors, we have specializations, and students can specialize in up to three things.
We have a thing called "promotion pictures," where we put creative people from Tisch with business people from Stern and they put together short films that are aired on the Internet for companies. We've done it for Heineken (HEIA), Ax Body Spray, Johnny Walker, Volvo (VOLV A), Verizon (VZ). It's branded entertainment for each company. For somebody wanting to get into marketing, to get hands-on, real-world experience, it's great that they can be taking the energies of Stern and Tisch. One year even Spike Lee reviewed some of the early treatments.
What tips can you give applicants who are looking to change industries after business school?
I would tell people an MBA is not a place to figure it all out; it's a place to get it done. You need a clear goal that you can put on the back of a business card. If you cannot write a compelling Essay One about your goals and how you're going to get there, you need to take more time. Business school is a huge investment, and you need to think it through. There are a lot of people who will continue in their field after business school. That said, there are a lot of people looking to make career transitions. People need to think it through and marry their goals with the MBA. They need to use what they know. For somebody who's an engineer who wants to go into consulting, we can work on analytical skills. For somebody wanting to get into marketing from accounting, we can talk about creativity in sales presentations and people skills.
What can you tell the 80% of applicants who don't make the cut at Stern?
It's tough because there are about 10 applications for every spot in our class. We can only admit 15% to 20% of the people. There are very qualified people we don't have room for. We're a medium-sized program, and that's important for our integrity.
In broad strokes, how are candidates evaluated at Stern?
In the admissions process, we look at three things: the candidates' academics, their career, and who they are as people. They have to able to demonstrate they can handle the academics—that's first and foremost. They can even retake the GMAT or take extra class work to demonstrate they can do very well here. Second, from a career perspective, it's important to be able to talk to a recruiter today, because at Stern it'll happen in a year. They should have good expectations about what careers are open to MBAs. Beyond that, they have to know what programs fit them at Stern.
The differences among business schools are like the differences among companies. For example, if you want to do something in tech, you can go to Microsoft (MSFT) or Apple (AAPL). They're both great companies but their cultures are very different. It's the same with schools. There are a lot of great schools, but students need to know what's great for them. So they should do research online, e-mail current students, talk to alums, or come and visit in the fall Monday through Thursday when the building is full and the school is busy. Our second essay is all about fitting with Stern. We have a very distinct culture, and it's important that we have kids who understand who we are.
What are you looking for in the third essay?
Essay Three is unique to our application. It's a personal expression. This lets people stand out and talk about who they are. If you've worked in banking and your GMAT is average, then Essay Three lets you stand out and show how you're different. We get collages, recipe books, photo albums. Now we have size restrictions. We say, "Think outside the box, but it has to fit in the box."
How are Stern's interviews different from other schools'?
Our interviews are essential, they're by invitation only. Between 25 and 30% of the applicants are interviewed. Almost all the interviews are conducted by our admissions staff and we have a conversation with the person that goes well beyond, "Why do you want an MBA?" We do all the interviews in New York City, because we want trained people doing the interviews. Our alums are wonderful, but they're not admissions experts. So that makes it unique, and candidates often like it. They can give their half-hour pitch directly to the admissions committee. And it's great to make sure it's the right fit for them.
What if an applicant's GMAT score falls below Stern's middle 80% range of 650 to 750?
Ten percent of the people we admit have a 630 or below. It's not like membership to Mensa. All it tells us is a prediction of how somebody will do in their first year of core classes. If there's other evidence that they'll do well, we have to take that into account. If they did well in undergrad or if they've excelled in their career, we take that into account. And for international students taking the test, English might not be their first language, so the GMAT might not be the best predictor.
Who should write one of an applicant's two required recommendations?
Someone who has true insight into the applicant as a business professional. We ask for one to come from their current immediate supervisor. And if that's not possible, they can explain why in their fourth essay. But usually that's the person in the best position to tell us about this person's business acumen. In some cases, undergraduate professors are O.K.—if there's a research history, or they've done work with these professors then that's an exception to the rule.
And who shouldn't write a rec?
Don't have Mom write the recommendation, even if you work in a family business. Find someone more objective. With self-employed people, definitely a client, a vendor, or a supplier would be preferred. They have to be a little more creative because they don't have a direct boss. Also, impressive as it is to get letters from CEOs and former Presidents—we've got a few from Bill Clinton—if that person doesn't have insight other than, "That person worked in my office and I heard good things," it really doesn't help the applicant. It doesn't provide any evidence we can use.
Does it help if an alumnus writes a recommendation?
We always love recs from our alumni and current students and professors. Those people know our culture better than anyone. So when a student writes in, that's important to us, especially when we look at the third element I talked about in admissions: character. Our students and alumni are not shy, we get plenty of recs from them. We have students volunteer to take prospectives to class or coffee. Even students who meet people for a day and have a great conversation send us an e-mail praising the student. Occasionally it can be a short meeting like that.
What questions can applicants expect to field during a Stern interview?
The interview can be very individual, because we try to tailor it based on the essays. In general we want to evaluate career goals. We want a better sense of exactly what kinds of companies the students are looking for, what kind of back-up plans they have, what they are doing between now and when they come to school. We ask how they're going to make their choices about schools, and what specifically attracted them to Stern. A lot of times we'll give them time to share something with the committee that we didn't ask them. We want them to have a few minutes, especially if they've flown many hours to see us for 30 minutes, and we let them say what they need to make their case.
What interview tips can you offer?
In essays as well as interviews, just be yourself. Be very genuine. A lot of times people are telling us what they think we want to hear. We want to hear the truth and hear it from the heart. There's a reason you want to quit your job and give up your income. We want to hear about that. If you want to work at a high-tech firm or start your own job, terrific. Whatever you want to do, be yourself and speak from the heart. And be excited. Demonstrate the passion you have for what you want to do. Have an energy that says, "I'm excited about my future and I can't wait to be a part of this organization. I will be successful."
How should a B-school admissions résumé differ from a professional résumé?
The résumé should be in laymen's terms. I think the biggest difference is that people applying to business school come from such a range of industries and functions, so we're not going to know all the industry-speak. It should be as easy as possible for us to understand what you're doing at work. Help us understand acronyms, explain your company's size and function. A lot of times people don't quantify what they've done. For example, what is "lead a team?" We want to know how many people were involved, how long was the assignment, and what was the result. Was there an increase in profit or decrease in overhead? Whatever it may be, help us understand exactly what you've done. Also, we want to understand career progression. So for a job résumé, you may combine a few titles, but we want to see each title, and your differences in role. It's nice to see an upward career trajectory.
Which courses are must-haves on a transcript?
We're very open. We just have the requirement that they've graduated from a four-year undergraduate program. Our core curriculum covers the waterfront from statistics to accounting… We assume that people want to come in to get that base knowledge. We have English majors, history, dance—all kinds of majors.
What does a competitive undergraduate transcript look like?
Whenever you take one item like transcript out of the application, it's hard to isolate it. We look at the transcript in the context of everything. Maybe you're a dance major from abroad with no grades and only pass/fail on your transcript, but you went on to work at a top consulting firm. That's a possibility, so now we're looking at the transcript very differently because of the work experience. Obviously you want to make sure the person did well academically. If the GPA (grade point average) is low, we want to see why. Hopefully it will be explained in an essay. We know some schools are easier and some programs have different reputations within schools. Ultimately we want students who will be successful, so we're looking for all positive evidence.
Most of your MBAs average about five years of professional work experience. What specific advice can you offer older candidates?
Don't look at the average. It's really broad. There's always somebody at the end of a Stern presentation who thinks they have too much experience, and he's sitting right next to the kid who thinks he has too little experience. It has to do with where you want to go. Pharma, for example, often looks for scientific background, with PhDs or backgrounds in lab research, which would take longer to complete. But an investment bank might be looking for a junior analyst, on the slightly lower end of the work experience spectrum. So you should know what your potential recruiter would be looking for.
Any words of wisdom for reapplicants?
Apply. We have 10 applications for every spot in the class. Sometimes, we just don't have room, even if they're talented and capable. It might just not be their year. Typically we're in the top seven for applications year in and year out. There's never enough space for the talent. But if you didn't get in the first time, do whatever you can to make yourself more competitive. We don't give advice or feedback because frankly somebody who will be successful in business should be able to analyze why they didn't make it, to a certain extent. But they can pursue a certification or they can choose better recommenders. A lot of times students will thank us for not accepting them, and they'll tell us their goals were not clearly defined and they'll say they feel a lot more prepared this time around.
What tips do you offer people on Stern's wait list?
A wait list is not a no. They can send more material—it tells a lot about character that someone's persistent and committed enough to retake the GMAT—but we're looking to see what you're doing to make yourself more attractive in terms of competitiveness.
What about scholarships. What's the best strategy for applicants?
About a third of our incoming students get a merit-based scholarship of some kind. That can be $10,000 to all tuition and fees for two years. It's merit based. We consider pretty much anybody. We have an optional Essay Four where they can explain how important the finances are. It comes back to how meritorious the candidate is.
Tuition continues to rise. How do you suggest international applicants — especially those from developing nations—pay for the degree?
We have merit-based scholarships. We have loans and international students can borrow the full cost of tuition. There's a summer internship that helps fund them through school. And then there are these graduate assistantships. Some are teaching assistants for professors, where students can help with research or grading. In our admissions office we have assistants help out. Career development has a lot of help with recruiters. Student workers work about 10 hours a week, and if they work both fall and spring session, it's about $10,000 remission. We also have our Stern consulting core and students can do that any time but first year fall—they go out and consult with a business in New York or a big nonprofit.
Of all the business schools, what makes Stern unique?
The two reasons that somebody should come here are the opportunities of New York City and the community—how we leverage the city for their benefit and how they become a part of the Stern community.
